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Hi, I have a V2P7 design going through ISE 6.1, in checking out the PAR report, it tells me in the device utilization section of this, Number of BUFGMUXs 8 out of 16 50% But go to timing report table, +-------------------------+----------+------+------+------------+-------------+ | Clock Net | Resource |Locked|Fanout|Net Skew(ns)|Max Delay(ns)| +-------------------------+----------+------+------+------------+-------------+ |opb_bram_if_cntlr_1_port | | | | | | | _BRAM_Clk | BUFGMUX4S| No | 2300 | 0.626 | 1.763 | +-------------------------+----------+------+------+------------+-------------+ | MHz33 | BUFGMUX5P| No | 560 | 0.168 | 1.310 | +-------------------------+----------+------+------+------------+-------------+ | ddr_clk_90 | BUFGMUX2P| No | 166 | 0.059 | 1.307 | +-------------------------+----------+------+------+------------+-------------+ | clk_90 | BUFGMUX1P| No | 12 | 0.048 | 1.298 | +-------------------------+----------+------+------+------------+-------------+ | ppc_clk_s | BUFGMUX6S| No | 2 | 0.000 | 1.784 | +-------------------------+----------+------+------+------------+-------------+ | JTGC405TCK | Local | | 1 | 0.000 | 2.514 | +-------------------------+----------+------+------+------------+-------------+ you can see that only 5 BUFGMUX are report here. I wonder where are the other 3 BUFGMUX consumed? Could you give me some clue? Thanks.Article: 66451
rickman <spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com> writes: > Jerry Avins wrote: >> >> Jeff Fox wrote: >> >> ... >> >> > I never used the 80186 but I have heard from people who did use >> > it in embedded work and later the 386e for embedded was clearly >> > aimed for and used for some embedded work. (though not be me.) >> > Technically comparing RTX to 8085 or Z80 seemed compelling but >> > didn't seem to account for much. (Rocket scientists excepted.) >> >> ... >> >> The 80186 was indeed designed for embedded work, including some on-chip >> peripherals. I forget what about it made it awkward to use compares to >> Z-80 and 6809, but I remember feeling that way. Probably my lack of >> familiarity bordering on ignorance. > > I don't think it was awkward compared to any of the 8 bitters. Are you guys kidding? It was that frickin' "segmented architecture" that was a pain in the ?##. I believe both the Z80 and 6809 were flat memory spaces, weren't they? Give me an 8085 any day of the 80's. --RY But it > was not *PC* compatible because the IO map was different. I guess back > then everyone either wanted a lower priced PC equivalent or they wanted > more MIPs and the 186 did neither. > > -- > > Rick "rickman" Collins > > rick.collins@XYarius.com > Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY > removed. > > Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company > Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com > 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice > Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX -- % Randy Yates % "My Shangri-la has gone away, fading like %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % the Beatles on 'Hey Jude'" %%% 919-577-9882 % %%%% <yates@ieee.org> % 'Shangri-La', *A New World Record*, ELO http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescrArticle: 66452
Randy Yates wrote: > rickman <spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com> writes: ... >>I don't think it [80186] was awkward compared to any of the 8 bitters. > > > Are you guys kidding? It was that frickin' "segmented architecture" that > was a pain in the ?##. I believe both the Z80 and 6809 were flat memory > spaces, weren't they? Give me an 8085 any day of the 80's. > > --RY Segmented architecture was a royal pain, but each segment was 64K, same as the 8 bitters. Segments were better than external hardware-supported banks. The galling part was that it didn't have to be that way. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻArticle: 66453
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:34:58 +0000, Randy Yates wrote: > rickman <spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com> writes: > >> Jerry Avins wrote: >>> >>> Jeff Fox wrote: >>> >>> ... >>> >>> > I never used the 80186 but I have heard from people who did use >>> > it in embedded work and later the 386e for embedded was clearly >>> > aimed for and used for some embedded work. (though not be me.) >>> > Technically comparing RTX to 8085 or Z80 seemed compelling but >>> > didn't seem to account for much. (Rocket scientists excepted.) >>> >>> ... >>> >>> The 80186 was indeed designed for embedded work, including some on-chip >>> peripherals. I forget what about it made it awkward to use compares to >>> Z-80 and 6809, but I remember feeling that way. Probably my lack of >>> familiarity bordering on ignorance. >> >> I don't think it was awkward compared to any of the 8 bitters. > > Are you guys kidding? It was that frickin' "segmented architecture" that > was a pain in the ?##. I believe both the Z80 and 6809 were flat memory > spaces, weren't they? Give me an 8085 any day of the 80's. Well if you were happy with 64k, then the segmentation wasn't a problem: you could be in "tiny" mode all the time (which is how the CP/M converters worked, I believe.) The x86 had some more instructions and better addressing modes than either the 8085 or Z80. Probably not necessarily nicer than the 6809 though (but I only read about the latter: never got to actually play with one.) Idle curiosity: why pick the 8085 over the Z80, in that time frame? Cheers, -- AndrewArticle: 66454
Jerry Avins wrote: > When I reply to a top-posted message with a sig -- like yours -- > everything below the sig is gone, as here. The _)(*&^%$#@!! news program > snips it all silently. Really? That's amazing. Why would they do that? Maybe you need to try a different reader. I'm using Outlook Express and directly off the Web when travelling with a browser. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Martin Euredjian To send private email: 0_0_0_0_@pacbell.net where "0_0_0_0_" = "martineu"Article: 66455
Jon Harris wrote: > "Jerry Avins" <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message > news:4035159f$0$3078$61fed72c@news.rcn.com... > >>When I reply to a top-posted message with a sig -- like yours -- >>everything below the sig is gone, as here. The _)(*&^%$#@!! news program >>snips it all silently. >> >>Jerry > > > What newsreader? Sounds like a bug, or at least something that should have > a switch to defeat it. If there's a switch, I'd like to know it. Netscape 7.1 It has other bugs too. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻArticle: 66456
rickman wrote: > Personally, I don't care one way or another how people post, I'm not > interested in getting into the top/bottom posting wars. Agreed. There are preferences either way and valid arguments on both camps. However, I think we can agree that excessive quoting is not good. > Besides, it is only a single key stroke to go to the bottom of a page. > Is that really a big problem? What's that single keystroke? Maybe there's something I haven't discovered here. I'm using Outlook Express. On the upper right there's a tree display of the message subjects. Directly below that what they call the "Preview pane" where you see the text for the message highlighted in the thread display. As I click through a thread with the trackball I can read top-posted messages without further actions. Bottom posted messages require clicking within the message pane and either using the scroll wheel to get to the bottom or other navigation (PageDown, Cursor, End, etc.). -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Martin Euredjian To send private email: 0_0_0_0_@pacbell.net where "0_0_0_0_" = "martineu"Article: 66457
brimdavis@aol.com (Brian Davis) writes: > For further evidence of this insidious conspiracy, > consider this recent ebay listing: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2595421628&category=50913 Wish I had seen that! I desperately need the development software (XACT) for 2064 and 2018 parts in order to do some maintenance on a client design. The client aparently lost the development tools years ago. They'd like to convince customers to buy new hardware, but the customers have a maintenance contract so my client would have to pay for the new hardware.Article: 66458
Ctrl-End. I guess it's 2 key strokes, and you still have to click within the message, though Tab will also move the focus from the tree view to the preview pane. (top-posted for your convenience!) "Martin Euredjian" <0_0_0_0_@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:vpcZb.27819$OB1.14027@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com... > rickman wrote: > > > Besides, it is only a single key stroke to go to the bottom of a page. > > Is that really a big problem? > > What's that single keystroke? Maybe there's something I haven't discovered > here. > > I'm using Outlook Express. On the upper right there's a tree display of the > message subjects. Directly below that what they call the "Preview pane" > where you see the text for the message highlighted in the thread display. > As I click through a thread with the trackball I can read top-posted > messages without further actions. Bottom posted messages require clicking > within the message pane and either using the scroll wheel to get to the > bottom or other navigation (PageDown, Cursor, End, etc.).Article: 66459
Andrew Reilly wrote: ... > > Idle curiosity: why pick the 8085 over the Z80, in that time frame? > > Cheers, The two bit I/O pins could save a UART. The only time I ever used it, it wasn't my choice. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻArticle: 66460
Jerry Avins wrote: > Martin Euredjian wrote: > >> Jabari, >> >> What's annoying about bottom posting? >> >> [snip] > > > When I reply to a top-posted message with a sig -- like yours -- > everything below the sig is gone, as here. The _)(*&^%$#@!! news program > snips it all silently. > > Jerry Jerry, I think a solution to the problem came up a couple of months ago on one of the Mozilla groups during a top vs bottom post flame war. Don't remember just what it was as I wasn't interested at the time.Article: 66461
Jon Harris wrote: > Ctrl-End. I guess it's 2 key strokes, ... Then <shift>+p to get P is also two keystrokes. As you like it. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻArticle: 66462
Jerry Avins wrote: > Jon Harris wrote: > >> "Jerry Avins" <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message >> news:4035159f$0$3078$61fed72c@news.rcn.com... >> >>> When I reply to a top-posted message with a sig -- like yours -- >>> everything below the sig is gone, as here. The _)(*&^%$#@!! news program >>> snips it all silently. >>> >>> Jerry >> >> >> >> What newsreader? Sounds like a bug, or at least something that should >> have >> a switch to defeat it. > > > If there's a switch, I'd like to know it. Netscape 7.1 It has other bugs > too. > > Jerry I'm using Mozilla 1.5 with no problems since its release. Mozilla 1.6 is out now. Isn't Netscape 7.x based on Moz 1.4 or earlier?Article: 66463
Jon Harris wrote: > Ctrl-End. I guess it's 2 key strokes, and you still have to click within > the message, though Tab will also move the focus from the tree view to the > preview pane. If focus is in the preview pane just "End" will get you to the bottom. Sorry for the off-topic nature of this. I scan-through and read hundreds of emails and newsgroup posts per day and just a few extra keystrokes can be a pain in the you-know-what. Using the preview pane: Keystrokes ----------------------- Top-posted reading: Click message in treeview (and read, of course) Click next message in treeview Click next message in treeview Repeat as needed. Bottom-posted reading: Click message in treeview Click in preview pane Press "End" (and read, of course) Click message in treeview Click in preview pane Press "End" (and read, of course) Repeat as needed or Click message in treeview Tab to preview pane Press "End" (find the start of the new text and read, of course) Click message in treeview Tab to preview pane Press "End" (find the start of the new text and read, of course) Repeat as needed There is a way to improve upon this. If you double-click to actually open a message you can use Ctrl+> and Ctrl+< to navigate from post to post with "Home" and "End" getting you to the start and end of a message immediately. The downside here is that you can't skip over messages you might not want to read and thus download them whether you like it or not. Probably not a big deal in light of the efficiency gain. Still, for me, either nicely snipped bottom-posted messages or top-posted messages are quickest to navigate through. Messages with three pages or prior-traffic quoting are an absolute waste of time and bandwidth. I should note that I'm working with a 1920 x 1200 display, so, for most messages, regardless of posting style, I can read them without scrolling whatsoever. Enough of this, back to Forth/FPGA's. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Martin Euredjian To send private email: 0_0_0_0_@pacbell.net where "0_0_0_0_" = "martineu"Article: 66464
Davka wrote: > Is there a community that is actively involved in discussing and/or > developing FPGA-based Forth chips, or more generally, stack > machines? I've thought about this in terms of internal use. As much as I like FORTH (used it extensively in the 80's and early 90's) the reality seems to be that C is the way to go. It's a matter of the business equation more than a technical rationalization. FORTH is very cryptic for non-FORTH programmers and finding skilled FORTH programmers is not as easy as C programmers. And, while productivity with FORTH can be substantially greater than with C or Assembly, you are, eventually, forced to contend with code maintenance, reuse and changes in design teams (Oh, no! Our only FORTH guy left!). -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Martin Euredjian To send private email: 0_0_0_0_@pacbell.net where "0_0_0_0_" = "martineu"Article: 66465
I am using Xilinx ISE 6.1 in my design on ML300 board, it's a V2P7 chip. and in the UCF I have this line in the middle, Net ddr_feedback_clock IOSTANDARD = LVCMOS25; after this line I have a bunch of other UCF defines, and I declare IOSTANDARD = PCI33_3 there. Towards the very end of UCF, I declare the reset pin, Net sys_rst LOC=P3; but when I run implementation, PAR error out saying on the same bank, bank3, I am trying to use 2 IOSTANDARD, and I found that sys_rst is somehow set to IOSTANDARD = LVCMOS25; !? I have to specifically declare sys_rst is IOSTANDARD = PCI33_3 because it sits at bank3 with other a banch of PCI pins. But I wonder how come sys_rst is assigned LVCMOS25? Note that ddr_feedback_clock is at different bank of sys_rst. Thanks.Article: 66466
In article <c204a8fb.0402191232.14222631@posting.google.com>, abduln@gte.net (Abdul Nizar) writes: >My design has 2 PicoBlaze processors on a Spartan-IIE sharing a common >IO bus (PORT_ID, IN_PORT, OUT_PORT, READ_STROBE, WRITE_STROBE). I am >planning to use simple priority based bus arbitration. Now I am trying >to figure out the minimal changes I need make to the PicoBlaze core in >order for the IO logic to be bus aware. It needs to assert BREQ to >request the bus, wait until BACK, use the bus, then deassert BREQ to >release the bus. If the bus is simple (as in a single cycle per operation), another approach is to alternate between CPUs and make each CPU stall if it needs the bus at the wrong time. -- The suespammers.org mail server is located in California. So are all my other mailboxes. Please do not send unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org address or any of my other addresses. These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.Article: 66467
Take a look at your .pad report file in the synthesis directory. It will indicate which pins are unused ( not separate from used), but still easily readable. -- Regards, John Retta Owner and Designer Retta Technical Consulting Inc. email : jretta@rtc-inc.com web : www.rtc-inc.com "QiDaNei" <qidanei__2@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:40350F12.721DACFE@hotmail.com... > Hi, > I am using a Xilinx V2P7 chip on ML300 board, for my design to work I > need to use some spare pins which are not connecting to on board > devices. As the chip has so many pins, I wonder if there is an easy way > to find out which pins are spare? Any implementation tool gives me such > info? > > Thanks. >Article: 66468
Hi, group: I use only rising edge and global buffers, but this oddball handed me a module with a mixed clock design, it uses both rising & falling edge of same clock. How come the P&Red netlist and RTL simulation didn't match. It seems the falling edge register has been removed. The registers can be found in the netlist, but in gatelevel simulation, the data is fed through with a small wire delay only. Is this the right behavior of mixed edge designs? Best Regards, KelvinArticle: 66469
Randy Yates wrote: > > rickman <spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com> writes: > > > Jerry Avins wrote: > >> > >> Jeff Fox wrote: > >> > >> ... > >> > >> > I never used the 80186 but I have heard from people who did use > >> > it in embedded work and later the 386e for embedded was clearly > >> > aimed for and used for some embedded work. (though not be me.) > >> > Technically comparing RTX to 8085 or Z80 seemed compelling but > >> > didn't seem to account for much. (Rocket scientists excepted.) > >> > >> ... > >> > >> The 80186 was indeed designed for embedded work, including some on-chip > >> peripherals. I forget what about it made it awkward to use compares to > >> Z-80 and 6809, but I remember feeling that way. Probably my lack of > >> familiarity bordering on ignorance. > > > > I don't think it was awkward compared to any of the 8 bitters. > > Are you guys kidding? It was that frickin' "segmented architecture" that > was a pain in the ?##. I believe both the Z80 and 6809 were flat memory > spaces, weren't they? Give me an 8085 any day of the 80's. It was only segmented if you wanted to go *beyond* 64 kB. If you are happy with a small memory space, the x86 family works very much like an 8085, even down to the 8 bit registers. Funny how Intel did that :) -- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAXArticle: 66470
Martin Euredjian wrote: > > rickman wrote: > > > Personally, I don't care one way or another how people post, I'm not > > interested in getting into the top/bottom posting wars. > > Agreed. There are preferences either way and valid arguments on both camps. > However, I think we can agree that excessive quoting is not good. > > > Besides, it is only a single key stroke to go to the bottom of a page. > > Is that really a big problem? > > What's that single keystroke? Maybe there's something I haven't discovered > here. > > I'm using Outlook Express. On the upper right there's a tree display of the > message subjects. Directly below that what they call the "Preview pane" > where you see the text for the message highlighted in the thread display. > As I click through a thread with the trackball I can read top-posted > messages without further actions. Bottom posted messages require clicking > within the message pane and either using the scroll wheel to get to the > bottom or other navigation (PageDown, Cursor, End, etc.). I don't know diddly about Outlook, but in most windows programs you can go to the bottom of any display by using <ctrl>+<end>. I belive Jerry said that in one of his posts. -- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAXArticle: 66471
Martin Euredjian wrote: > > Davka wrote: > > > Is there a community that is actively involved in discussing and/or > > developing FPGA-based Forth chips, or more generally, stack > > machines? > > I've thought about this in terms of internal use. As much as I like FORTH > (used it extensively in the 80's and early 90's) the reality seems to be > that C is the way to go. > > It's a matter of the business equation more than a technical > rationalization. FORTH is very cryptic for non-FORTH programmers and > finding skilled FORTH programmers is not as easy as C programmers. And, > while productivity with FORTH can be substantially greater than with C or > Assembly, you are, eventually, forced to contend with code maintenance, > reuse and changes in design teams (Oh, no! Our only FORTH guy left!). You had to go and say that, didn't you! This is being posted to the Forth newsgroup and you will hear a few comments about this... ;) All that I will say is that I was quite happy coding in Pascal for a long time. I switched to C when Pascal compilers were not already available at a new job. And I must say that it was a lot harder to write a working program for a newbie. -- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAXArticle: 66472
"Davka" <mygarbagepail@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<T%XXb.70$pM3.121810@news.uswest.net>... > I want to bring my knowledge about Forth processors up to date, so I'm > posting some questions. > > Who is currently selling Forth processors? > > What happened to forthchip.com? > > Is there a community that is actively involved in discussing and/or > developing FPGA-based Forth chips, or more generally, stack > machines? > > Has anyone done any substantial DSP work in Forth? Are there libraries > of code available? Hi I have written a target compiler for Forth to run on the ADSP218x parts( analog devices ). It is not intented to be used to write the lowest level of DSP functions, like FFT, IIR or FIR but is intended to work in parallel with this code written in assembly. As a forth, I benched it compared to a Novix NC4000. With a 2181 running at 33Mhz, it executed Forth code at about the rate of a 10Mhz NC4000. That isn't to bad at all. The code is available on the FIG site someplace. Dr Ting has also written a full eForth for the same processor. It is on the CDROM that he sells through Offette Press. I don't know how it compares to mine. But it does come with an interpreter and mine is just a target compiler so you'd need to write your own interpreter and create your own dictionary structure ( you might look at Chuck Moore's CMForth for a good example of a simple dictionary/interpreter ). Later Dwight > > How about hardware Forth implementations that include dedicated DSP > hardware? > > Thanks in advance!Article: 66473
Rick, True, but it works in the window you have in focus. A previous poster summarized why I prefer top posting as well. I can get through tons of posts jsut clicking in the tree view if they are top posted (no key strokes, so I can do it while drinking my coffee). Bottom posted ones require a click in the preview followed by a keystroke or scroll to get to the bottom.. a two handed operation that is slower. Thanks, I'll stick to my top posting rickman wrote: > MaI don't know diddly about Outlook, but in most windows programs you can > go to the bottom of any display by using <ctrl>+<end>. I belive Jerry > said that in one of his posts. > > -- > > Rick "rickman" Collins > > rick.collins@XYarius.com > Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY > removed. > > Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company > Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com > 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice > Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 email ray@andraka.com http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759Article: 66474
Hi Paulo, Thanks for the link. This part of the Answers Database sounds relevant to my problem. _______________________________________________________________________________ If one port attempts to read from the same memory cell to which the other is simultaneously writing (also violating the clock setup requirement) the write will be successful, but the data read will be invalid. _______________________________________________________________________________ However, the information provided doesn't solve the problem I am having. Looking at the error messages and the wave form, it seems to me I will have to put some kind of delay (I believe that's called Tbccs.) between Port A's write access to address x on clock cycle y and Port B's read access to address x on clock cycle y + 1, but since I am implementing a synchronous FIFO that allows simultaneous read/write (push/pop), I don't see how I am going to do that for a FIFO that is synthesizable. Am I going to have to delay the reading by one clock cycle (Performing read access to Port B on clock cycle y + 2)? I don't see that as a practical solution. Also, the above link still doesn't explain why the FIFO fails with ISE 4.2's Unisim library, but works fine with ISE 5.1 and 5.2's Unisim library. Kevin Brace (If someone wants to respond to what I wrote, I prefer if you will do so within the newsgroup.)
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